By John Esther
With few female drumming icons to follow, Schemel never gave up on her dreams to play professionally like all those bad boys in rock & roll bands.
Through a series of events, Schemel came into contact with Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love, alternative rock music's favorite couple of the early 1990s. Some say she could have played drums for Nirvana, but David Grohl eventually garnered the gig and thus Schemel landed in the band Hole. It was a pretty good place to be.
In 1994 Hole released the album, Live Through This. With Love doing lead vocals and rhythm guitar, Eric Erlandson on lead guitar, new member Kristen Pfaff on bass and Schemel the driving force on drums, Live Through This was not only seen by many as one of the major musical achievements of the decade, it was also a commercial success.
On top and fire, it seemed the sky was the limit for Schemel and her mates but instead, came several, sometimes, not-too-unforeseeable tragedies.
Things for Schemel came to an unfortunate final clash during the recording of Celebrity Skin. Although Schemel was a solid part of the album's conception and execution, she was essentially forced out of the group before the album's release in 1998. But the memories and moments linger on.
Fortunately, Schemel recorded many hours of her early days with Hole, Cobain and company on her camera. There she is smashing her drums on stage. Here is Cobain and child. There is one wasted Love. Schemel is in London. And so on.
Jump to years later when Schemel approached director P. David Ebersole (Desire; Straight Right) with her materials. Although not a diehard fan of the early 1990s alternative music scene, Ebersole saw a potentially significant story here about struggle and success, rock and reconciliation, aspiration and addiction, love and Love.
Mixing Schemel's precious home pictures alongside Ebersole's interviews with Schemel and many others involved with those times, Hit So Hard: The Life and Near Death of Patty Schemel plays for diehard Hole fans as well as more general audiences seeking understanding from real-life's highs and lows. A little tragedy can befit all.
Clean and sober and now married to one of the documentary's producers, Christina Soletti, Schemel recently sat down to talk to talk to LN about her life, career, rock, motherhood, heroin and what it means to make music in a man's world.
Lesbian News: Since your dad gave you your first set of drums at 11, tell us what life was like for you before drumming?
Patty Schemel: I was kind of into sports. Kids played sports in the neighborhood and I played with them. I had a lot of energy so when I came to play drums I could channel all that energy into the drums, which was a great release for me.
LN: Did you leave sports behind at that point?
PS: Yeah, yeah.
LN: Why the drums rather than guitar or piano?
PS: I didn’t see girls playing the drums. I like music and my parents supported that.
LN: Since you did not see any girl drummers what made you think you should become one?
PS: Because when I was little I totally identified with boys more than girls. So I wanted to do something a boy was doing.
LN: What did your parents think of your musical choice – as far as anyone can be happy with a drummer in the house?
PS: [Laughs.] They supported it; surprisingly, right? As long as I took it seriously and it wasn’t one of those things that was just a flashy moment of excitement about something. So I stuck with it.
LN: How did your friends and peers feel about you, as a girl, playing the drums?
PS: I was in a school band and there were only boys in the school band so in the beginning it was kind of tough. I was a girl. One of my school-band teachers was always relegating me to just play the cymbals or xylophone and I wanted to play [something bigger].
LN: Did you have any confrontations with the teacher to get over that?
PS: No, I just kind of stuck in there. I had my own drum kit at home. I had drum lessons. I did my own thing at home. I played to my own records, to the radio. I would find my way that way.
LN: What were some of records you played with at home?
PS: AC/DC. The Go Go's Beauty and the Beat was a big one. I loved Kiss; and then just whatever came on the rock station.
LN: I noticed you also liked Echo & the Bunnymen and Wire, two bands one does not associate with a notable drummer.
PS: Robert Gotobed of Wire and Pete de Freitas of Echo & the Bunnymen had different ideas than what you heard in rock. At the time it was a big drum kit and strong visuals and production and Wire and Echo & the Bunnymen were more about guitar riffs and drum parts that complimented them and not so much pushy, big displays, which I like.
LN: Did you feel, and do you still feel, that as a female drummer you have to practice twice as hard and be twice as good as your male counterparts just to be considered equal?
PS: Always. I had to hit really hard. I had to be aggressive. I couldn’t be wimpy about it. I didn’t want to be prissy about it. I wanted to attack it.
LN: Do you still feel that you have to attack it?
PS: Yeah, that's just the way I do it. But nowadays I don’t have to prove to myself anything. I'm more focused on what's going on with the song and if it needs an attack or something a little more laid back. I listen more than I used to. Growing up was just about playing hard and being punk rock, you know, rock! Now I may take a minute to sit back rather than slam through it. But I play different styles than I used to.
LN: What other kinds of styles are you playing right now?
PS: A little more indie pop type stuff. When I started out my teacher taught me to play jazz. I never really liked it but now I kind of like playing it a little bit. So I'll try that.
LN: How did you get involved with Hole? In hindsight was it better than playing for Nirvana?
PS: I was never going to be in Nirvana. That's such an overblown thing. Kurt had Dave Grohl in mind and that was that. Kurt and I jammed together and stuff. It's one of those Courtney myths that she created. Let's just clear that up.
LN: During the documentary you revisit Kurt and Kristen death. I got the feeling while watching it that you are still evolving, coming to grips and reacting to those times.
PS: Yeah. I just saw the documentary again in Seattle. It took a twist because where I was staying was actually very close to where Kristen's old apartment was. I took a walk and I just happened to walk by it. It wasn’t anything I happened to plan. I still have feelings about her and I miss her, same with Kurt.
LN: You were working on your sobriety when you found out both of them died.
PS: I was in Portland with my sister when Kurt died. I was trying to kick a drug habit and I saw it on the news. With Kristen I was fresh out of rehab. I had taken a job cleaning houses and while I was working I got a phone call from my girlfriend telling me Kristen had overdosed. I was newly clean and sober. My feelings were scattered. I was totally, as I say in the film, raw.
LN: And that pushed you off the proverbial wagon.
PS: Yeah.
LN: Why do you think you reacted that way?
PS: I managed to stay clean and sober, eventually. But at the time I guess it was just so many things going on. I remember when I started, again. It was like coming home from touring. You get home and there's nothing there but me. It was kind of like home for the holidays. What do you do when you get home?
LN: Why do you think drugs are so prevalent for rock & roll musicians who have made it? Sure drugs can be a creative influence but when you see how many talented people we have lost the battle to addiction, why even get started with something like heroin?
PS: In my case it's about discovering this drug that makes me feel like, "I'm okay." It deals with that weird ego. "Am I okay? Am I good enough? I'm not good enough." Entertainment is so focused on what you look like, what your songs are like. At the time we were all so young and to have all of that thrown onto you. Some heroin would make you feel okay, like "Okay, I can deal with this."
LN: Does it feed into – I do not want to say "guilt" – but the awareness that you have made it when so many people have not made it? You are one of the lucky ones.
PS: Yeah, of course. Or "I can't believe I made it. Do I deserve this?"
LN: What do you think of the persistent conspiracy theories that Kurt's death was not a suicide but a murder and that Courtney had something to do with it?
PS: It's just ridiculous. It's nuts.
LN: A lot of it stems from the documentary, Kurt and Courtney, and Courtney's response to it – like threatening Sundance. Do you know why she was so adamantly involved? Why not let events run their course?
PS: I guess, as far as I know, the filmmaker was more about being exploitive. I seen something else he did and it was more of a gossipy trash.
LN: Nick Broomfield.
PS: Yes. I can remember we were rehearsing at SIR here in Hollywood and Nick and his crew came. It was sort of like this annoyance that would just show up.
LN: What kind of influence do you think Hole has had over the years, especially for females feeling they are on the outside of the mainstream?
PS: I know more about that now than I did when it was happening. I hear from women who play music today how Live Through This was an important record to them because of the lyrics and that we were predominantly a female band. Courtney saying, "Don’t be the girlfriend of the dude in the band; be the one in the band." I never even thought of being the girlfriend of the dude in the band. [Laughs.] A lot of men and women said that that record helped them while they were growing up or getting them through a tough time.
LN: You were the first female to be on the cover of Drummer Magazine --
PS: Another myth. I was never on the cover of Drummer Magazine. Inside a magazine about drums, I was featured. But the cover was another Courtney myth. [Laughs]. I guess this is already becoming the myth-debunking session.
LN: Now I know why I could not find a photo of the cover. Do you think rock & roll has become any less sexist?
PS: It's hard to say now. There was the great moment of the 1990s when the underground was coming out and it was okay to be gay or you can be a woman and play music. Now it's about corporate rock. That's the way to get your records sold and get your music out there. Cross your fingers for that Apple commercial. I know it was a great time for women; they picked up instruments and started to play –
LN: What do you think happened? How did we lose our way?
PS: I don’t know. I don’t want to make such broad statements about it either. I don’t have enough information to back it all up. It's just what I see.
LN: Well, what do you suspect?
PS: Anyone can record her or his music now. It's amazing and great. People are putting out their music for free everywhere and anywhere. There's a great way to connect with people. Yet on the other hand, the stuff on top you see is so corporate. I don’t know where we lost our way. I really don’t know how to answer that. What do you think?
LN: The powers that be figured a way to control the market and the rebellion by seducing the players and commodifying their music for mass consumption.
PS: Yeah, totally. Look what happen to the whole Riot Grrrl Movement. It got discombobulated and came out the other end as the Spice Girls.
LN: Right. Well, it is nothing new. You can go back to The Monkees, essentially a corporate creation to counteract the Beatles.
PS: Yeah. And Nirvana is now part of the classic rock scene, which is so crazy and amazing at the same time.
LN: Do you think the music industry has progressed with regard to the GLBT community, rights?
PS: Once again it's a yes and no thing. On one hand we have Lady Gaga, who everybody knows and who is promoting alternative and gay lifestyles. Then we have Tyler the Creator who just put out a record with all this homophobic slurs and (recording artists) Sara Quin of Tegan and Sara wrote a letter on their website asking why everyone is so crazed for this music when all it does is put down so many. There was this Twitter rant between him and her, baiting her. I saw kids lined up at Amoeba Music to get that record and tickets to a secret Tyler show and they're getting home and rapping the homophobic lyrics.
LN: Do you think it is more difficult to make it in rock & roll as a woman or a gay person?
PS: Wow. Talent kind of trumps all.
LN: Yeah?
PS: Yeah. I'm going to say it. Yes!
LN: You also mentioned in a recent interview that this documentary should answer everything we need to know about the Celebrity Skin scandal. Was anyone doing any revisionist history, perhaps making themselves look better than they did? Do you think everyone is being evenhanded and honest in his or her recollections?
PS: As far as I know, yes. Why wouldn’t they?
LN: Well, if one was a real jerk.
PS: Yeah. From the interviews and stuff it was, "Yeah, we fucked up." I admit my part in it. I don’t hold any grudges. That was all part of the film as well, putting an end to that chapter. At the beginning of the documentary I still had issues with everybody in my own way. As things progressed everything just disappeared. My feelings became less and less.
LN: Were you watching the dailies?
PS: I didn’t see anything. I kind of wanted to stay hands out and off. It was my story, but it was through P. David and co-producer and co-writer Todd Hughes' -- more David's -- eyes telling the story. I trusted him. This was delicate footage and I didn’t want it to be portrayed in any other way than what is was or exploited. Also, he didn’t know this story. He knew of Nirvana but he didn’t really know the others. That's why it was so important to me, because he didn’t have any preconceived ideas about anything. He didn’t know of the controversy. He was just like, "Oh, okay." [Laughs.] He sort of got a quick schooling in music, too. I said, "Look, you just need to know about this, this and this. Get to work and do your homework."
LN: Considering P. David is your friend, what kind of challenges did you or he face regarding remaining objective?
PS: He was more friends with my wife than me. He knew of my difficulties but he didn’t know the story. He just knew I just played drums in Hole. We did interviews. He asked me questions and I answered them. I really didn’t edit myself.
LN: You mentioned it in the documentary, but can you elaborate why you recorded all that footage in the first place?
PS: I got a camera from a friend at Christmas. We were on tour and I started this film stuff. You know, "Here we are in Madrid." In a way my younger self was talking to my older stuff. "Hey, whatever happens in years to come, here's some proof you actually went to London."
LN: Did you have any say on which archival footage would be used in the documentary?
PS: No. There's 40 hours of footage. A lot of it didn’t get put out.
LN: Did you have any say in the final edit?
PS: I guess what I did was like when we looked at it I'd go, "Can you just trim down my mom? She's a bit longwinded." You know, stuff like that.
LN: Was there anyone you really needed for the recent interviews you could not get?
PS: No one refused. Everyone was totally receptive. We wanted to get Michael Stipe to talk. He had some family stuff.
LN: Why did you want him?
PS: He was around. He's in some of the footage.
LN: Has the experience of the documentary been cathartic for you and other members of the band?
PS: Yeah. I don’t know for Erik. We see each other. I'm in contact a lot with Melissa. I've always been in contact with Courtney here and there.
LN: Seeing how the documentary has brought the band back together – in the documentary and at film festivals – and I know you keep getting this question but since this is your latest interview – is there any chance of Hole reuniting with you, Eric, Melissa and Courtney?
PS: Courtney's got her new version of Hole and she's working with that. Eric just finished a book that's going to be published soon. Melissa is touring with her own music and she's got stuff she's really active in her own community in Hudson, New York. I've got this and I have an eight-month-old baby at home. I can never say never, but not in the short term.
LN: Not at Outfest?
PS: [Laughs.] Definitely not.
LN: You mention parenting. How does that help you cope with the struggles you have had through your life?
PS: I know it sounds so corny but I like to reflect back to her good things. I try to rise above and be the best I can be.
LN: Have you entertained the thought of how you are going to approach discussions about drug use once she reaches an age where she can start taking drugs?
PS: [Chuckles.] Yeah, we'll deal with that when it happens.
LN: I understand the documentary does not have distribution yet?
PS: There are deals and talks but nothing solid yet.
LN: Moving off the documentary and career, how did you meet your wife, Christina?
PS: As the story goes, we met at a party in the 1990s in San Francisco but I don’t remember it at all.
LN: Does she?
PS: She does. Then we met through a mutual friend around 2002. We had mutual attraction. Then we met again and actually started dating in 2005 and got married in 2008. Then we just had our baby last September.
LN: What do you like to do in your downtime?
PS: I have my dog business. Now, everything is about Beatrice. It's all about taking her out and seeing her get excited. We went to Children's Museum. She has a tooth and it's like, "Whoooa!" It's the simple stuff that's amazing.
LN: If she only knew your past, she would probably say, "Mom, you played in front of 70,000 screaming fans. Everybody gets a tooth."
PS: [Laughs.] I know.
LN: Are there any particular social or political causes you are heavily active in currently?
PS: I do a lot of work for Rock 'n' Roll Camp for Girls. They just started in LA chapter up last summer. That is what I do in the summer. It's amazing. I'm the drum instructor. It's for girls 8-18 and we teach them: they choose instruments; they form bands; they learn about songwriting; how to make t-shirts for their bands; show them how to communicate positively with their band; promotion; how to record; how to take care of your instrument. And it makes me excited to play again.
LN: Have they heard of Hole?
PS: Yeah, but it's more of their parents that get excited about it than they do.
LN: Yeah, if you were the drummer for Justin Bieber, that might have impressed them.
PS: [Laughs.] I know. The Jonas Brothers. I always try to throw a Jonas Brothers reference: "Well, you know, the Jonas Brothers always do this in their music." That gets them excited.
LN: Lastly, how do you feel about these interviews where you continue to discuss yourself and Hit So Hard as a sort of ongoing narrative? Do they serve your work? Should the work speak for itself?
PS: [Waving her hands.] The documentary can speak for itself.
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